Extraordinary Meeting Minutes

Meeting Record

Meeting Title:

Extraordinary Meeting of Benniworth Parish Council

Meeting Date/Time:

12 Dec 2017

19:30

Meeting Number:

01

Purpose of Meeting:

Letter received by Jane and Sandy Gladman from Freedom Camping Club advising proposed caravan site at Homestead Lodge

Persons Present:

Councillor Keith Olivant – Chairman

Councillor Christine Raynor – Vice Chairman

Councillor Gill Stewart

Councillor Pat Walker

Councillor Paul Willoughby

Councillor Fay Moon

Members of the public - 14

Advance Apologies:

Councillor Sue Olivant

Councillor Christine Portas

Location

Skirbeck Farm, Benniworth

Agenda:

1. Camp site – the application by Mr Dean Temple to the Freedom Camping Club

2. Declaration of Interest

3. Meadow Lane road surface, if time permits

4. AOB – added at end of meeting, not on initial agenda   

Next

Meeting

Date:

Time:

Location:

 18 January 2018

19:30 – 20:30

Skirbeck Farm, Benniworth

Agenda Item

Details

Introduction

Cllr Raynor opened the meeting by informing all attendees that the meeting would be recorded as there was no Clerk present to scribe and it would leave all Councillors present free to contribute to the meeting.

Cllr Moon enquired if all present were happy with the voice recording – no objections raised

Cllr Olivant opened the meeting with the announcement of the extraordinary meeting being held in order to meet the deadline of the 20th December for objections to be submitted as per the details set out in the letter from Freedom Camping Club to neighbouring MOP’s.

1.

Cllr Olivant advised that Freedom needed to know our views, as a Parish Council. Cllr Moon queried if the PC had received a letter as only one neighbour had been informed. The PC had not received a letter but Cllr Raynor stated we were there in support of the impacted neighbours to the proposed site. The letter was received by one neighbour but all neighbours had been made aware so were all present.

Recipient made herself known to everyone. Recipient felt that as she was the only neighbour in receipt of the letter, and because of the manner in which it was delivered, it was important to let everyone else know what was going on. Others present agreed it was the right thing to do.

Cllr Olivant stated that the proposed site would be very visible but also said that he was not in a position to comment  as he also has a caravan site on his land and that they would be in competition. Recipient pointed out that Cllr Olivant’s site was not next to a neighbour and that she is within 100 yards of the proposed site, and that other MOP’s are right next door and that lots of other people in the area will suffer from it. Cllr Moon queried as to why other MOP had not also received a letter as they are nearer than the Recipient’s. MOP stated they did not get a lot of messages from Mr Dean Temple. Cllr Moon confirmed she meant letters from the company (Freedom) and not the family. MOP felt she needed to add her comment about Mr Temple.

Recipient stated that the gentleman who handed her the letter must have come from the house (Homestead Lodge) on the day it was handed to her. Cllr Moon asked her why she said that and Recipient responded that it was because of the way he came through the village. He came from that direction, he stopped outside where Recipient was talking to somebody and pushed the letter into her hand and said “for you”. He then got in his car and drove off. Cllr Moon asked if he knew that Recipient was the resident and she responded that she did not know and Recipient said there was nothing on the envelope, it was plain and we have a copy of the letter inside. Recipient said she could have been standing inside her gate whilst she was talking to someone and that’s how he knew who she was.

Cllr Olivant assumed the gentleman that handed Recipient was the inspector that had been to see Mr Temple. Recipients agreed as they assumed he had to pay £60 for somebody to come out to the proposed site to look it over. Cllr Olivant stated that he happened to be there approximately 1 hour after the gentleman had left and ‘he’ (presumably Mr Temple) said he had had an inspector out to look at the site and that he had told Cllr Olivant where the site was going to be to which Cllr Olivant said he had his own thoughts.

Cllr Raynor continues by reading the letter from Freedom Camping Club. Cllr Raynor pauses whilst more people arrive at the meeting. Cllr Raynor continues with some amusement being heard from some attendees as Cllr Raynor reads the last paragraph and states its use as ‘a bit of blackmail’. Cllr Stewart asks Cllr Raynor to read the sentence at the very bottom of the letter regarding Natural England.

Cllr Olivant states that he has not heard of Freedom Camping Club and yet he seems to be a member of it. Cllr Moon confirmed he is and other MOP’s are also members. Cllr Walker asked where we found this information out and Cllr Moon responded, along with others, that it is on the website. Recipient explains how to get the information and that the website states that Glebe Farm and Cllr Olivant’s site are for members only as though they mention the site but say you can only go if you are a member. Cllr Stewart explains that you can only be a member of one caravan club to get your exemption and explains that as Cllr Olivant is a member of the Caravan Club he will have his exemption for his 5 van site through them and you can’t get one from another club. Cllr Moon asks if you can be a member of other clubs just for advertising purposes and not the legal side of things. Cllr Moon goes on to explain the ‘members of’ means members of the club, such as caravanners like her, can only stay on the site, if she was not a member she could not stay there without membership unless she was a member of another affiliated club associated with Cllr Olivant’s site. Cllr Olivant states that he has never turned anyone away from his site yet. Cllr Moon advises that if the details for Cllr Olivant’s site are incorrect on Freedom Camping Club website then he should contact them. Cllr Olivant goes on to explain that, and he states he should not be saying it as he is ‘shooting himself in the foot’, they have rally days and that he has had 30 caravans on his site. Cllr Moon asks if, for rallies’ numbers can be increased. A MOP states a licence is required. Cllr Moon asks if it is a one-off licence to which the response is that it can be for up to 28 days and no more than one in any 12 month period. Cllr Moon is confident Cllr Olivant knows the legislation around this as he has been doing it for many years. Cllr Olivant states he gets on very well with the inspector that comes to his site and he has been told that he could potentially have 50 caravans and that was something to think about for Homestead Lodge.

Cllr Moon offers to go through the concerns that have been raised as she has been to see Mr Temple to discuss the application. Cllr Moon hands out 3 copies of a Google map, which is unfortunately out of date so not accurate. Recipient confirms the Google maps date back to 2009. The map outlines the proposed site, the entrance to the proposed site and the Recipient’s property. The document also contains the points of concern that were raised from an email trail between the Parish Councillors and the information provided by the Recipient. Points of concern are as follows:

1. Access

2. Road width

3. Traffic through the village

4. Seepage

5. Visibility of site

6. Site usage

7. Site size

8. Dog mess

9. Water supply – Cllr Moon added this

Cllr Moon states that she is acting completely impartially, she is not taking sides, does not want to be held accountable for anything and is just stating the facts that she has from Mr Temple. When asked if this was understood, no response was received. MOP asked if the facts were from Mr Temple, Cllr Moon responded that the list is of the things that were discussed with Mr Temple and the possible solutions that could be put in place. Before going through the list Cllr Stewart asked what exactly was Mr Temple applying for as there are 4 different types of licences for different sized sites. Cllr Moon continues to go through the points as this is one of them. Cllr Moon states that this directly impacts the licence applied for and corrects herself as Mr Temple has not applied for licence but to become a member of Freedom Camping Club. Cllr Stewart requests further information on the application to which Cllr Moon response that if we go through the points that will be covered.

1. Access/ 2. Width of road/ 3. Traffic through village/ 7. Site size – Cllr Raynor had previously stated in an email that the road was singe track. This could not be confirmed without an OS map but it wasn’t clear. Arrival and departure times could be defined to alleviate the possibility of caravans meeting on the road. Other sites have this issue and the solution works. Cllr Raynor points out that it is not the only caravan site in the village so could still be an issue. Cllr Moon points out that the other sites are established and we are not there to discuss them. The point from Cllr Raynor is traffic which Cllr Moon agrees is relevant but that comparing this site to the others is not. Cllr Raynor suggested the following scenario:

MOP is coming out of her property and heading up towards the High Street and meets a caravan at the arrival time. What does she do? That is nothing to do with Mr Temple and it’s just a fact.

Cllr Willoughby adds to the facts by stating the road is the property of the Council and is wider than a narrow road and adds another scenario of a 30 tonne corn lorry in the same situation. The council will not act as it is already in existence and heavy goods vehicles already use it. It is suggested that 5 more caravans will not make a difference and Cllr Raynor agrees that it doesn’t matter but is concerned about the wet verges being soft. Recipient states that she has ruts 6 inches deep outside her house because there is not enough room for large vehicles to pass. MOP also adds that she had to be towed out of the verge recently – other comments in the background cannot be heard due to attendees talking at the same time.

MOP stated that an insufficient scoping study had been carried out as the hazards are already there and possibly cannot be changed. On checking Freedom Camping Club website there is nothing to say that you have to put measures in place and stick to them and there may be an increase in size. There is nothing to say that Mr Temple will adhere to any of the measures he says he could put in place. The concern is the site will expand, Cllr Moon stated he will require planning for increasing the site size. It was suggested that not enough scoping had been done but Cllr Moon does not know if that is the next step in Freedom’s process if no objections are received. Cllr Stewart asks what certificate he has applied for and Cllr Moon confirms it is a 5 van site with no tents. MOP states that this site is between a lot of properties so concerned about noise, fires and the situation of her stable block and her garden. Cllr Moon quotes policy and procedure from other clubs regarding noise and fires but does not give any assurance that Mr Temple will have the same in place or adhere to them. MOP feels they should have also received a letter due to their proximity to the site. Another member of the public (unclear who on the recording) asks why Mr Temple had not attended and Cllr Moon explained that she did give him the opportunity but she wasn’t sure that, if she was in his position, she would want to be in the room. MOP pointed out that Cllr Moon had been put in a difficult position at which point she reiterated her impartiality statement and advised that all attendees should take the contact details for Freedom Camping Club and put forward their concerns. Recipient feels that they have been targeted for being 2 females on their own and that it was expected they would do nothing about it.

Cllr Olivant states that even if permission is granted the application has to go to East Lindsey District Council. Cllr Olivant was also required to put 6 passing places on the road leading to his site. Potentially this would also be required of Mr Temple if it goes to ELDC. Cllr Raynor states that according to ELDC website documentation there needs to be 100 yards view from the entrance/exit to the corner. No measurements have been taken but it is assumed not to be the case at this site. Cllr Moon suggested placing a mirror or any other measure.

MOP states that on all of the planning he has seen on ELDC planning portal, there is no permission for Mr Temple’s new driveway access to his property. Cllr Moon explains she cannot confirm if planning is required. Cllr Stewart confirms it is. Recipient draws attention to Mr Temple creating a gap in the hedge nearly opposite her property. Cllr Moons tries to explain the map is older than Mr Temple’s residency and the gap is shown clearly on the map. Cllr Willoughby calls for order in the room so that she can explain where the site entrance is going to be as it was assumed the original gap in the hedge is going to be the entrance. Recipient states that if Mr Temple’s new driveway is to be the site entrance then he won’t be able to get caravans to the field where the site is going to be because he keeps his animals in the field. Cllr Moon explains Mr Temple keeps his animals nearer to his house. Recipient states that Mr Temple put a new gap/gate in the hedge which Cllr Moon points out is on the map from 2009. Cllr Willoughby clarifies all access points as he worked to reseed the grass field. He explains the new driveway used to be gated access to a field and the gap in the hedge opposite Lime House had gates fitted to fill the gap, confirming the gap existed prior to Mr Temple moving to Benniworth.

It is questioned who will contact the local council as per the letter. We can contact regarding the planning but it is stated in the letter that Freedom will contact the local council regarding the site application. This is to ascertain their views. Planning is not required for the site unless toilet blocks are to be built. It is unclear when this will happen. Cllr Moon explains she does not know the next step in the process and whether we should contact the Council and asks if anyone has contacted Freedom to find that out. Nobody had. Cllr Raynor states that Cllr Stewart gave her the name Emily Benson in Planning for ELDC. Cllr Raynor was advised to list all concerns by Ms Benson’s colleague and send them to her. Cllr Raynor also stated that according to documentation on Freedom website, once any objections were received they would come to the site to look into them.

MOP feels there is not a lot that can be done to stop this from happening due to no requirements for planning permission. Cllr Stewart agrees that it can’t be stopped but urges attendees to put forward their objections, to both Freedom and the Council. The concern is that if Mr Temple is successful in his application it could lead to a bigger site and include tents. Cllr Willoughby points out that if this happens it needs to go for planning permission. Recipient states that the man who presented the letter has a smaller site than the proposed site but has 25 caravans on site. Cllr Moon is not certain if that is possible unless for storage. The Recipient’s have driven around all the sites in the area and none of the sites are overlooked by surrounding properties. Recipient shows the Freedom site details to the Council and Cllr Moon states it is much bigger than the proposed site. Recipient focuses on the potential size of Mr Temple’s site. Assumptions have been made that it is Mr Temple’s intention to expand should his application be approved. Cllr Willoughby states that we cannot possibly know what will happen in the future but once again urges attendees to respond to Freedom with their concerns.

Conversation around what has already been built on the property – not minuted in detail as not relevant to the meeting.

MOP suggests that Cllr Moon is in fact representing Mr Temple when she stated she is impartial. In response to MOP Cllr Willoughby informs the room that she is merely trying to address the points of concern and that she had to meet with Mr Temple to find out the facts. Recipient asked why Mr Temple did not go to see her. Cllr Moon offered the explanation that she was given by Mr Temple which was that he was sorry he had not been to see her and he knew he should have as he felt he had a positive relationship with her. Recipient stated she does not have a positive relationship as for the entire time he has lived at Homestead Lodge, Mr Temples son had ridden his bike round his field. Cllr Willoughby requests the Chairman to retain order in the room as the discussion is no longer relevant to the point of the meeting. Cllr Moon agrees it is now going onto complaints about a person and not the matter in hand. MOP states the importance of sticking together in case anything else should happen and that we should all communicate. MOP points out how sad it is that nobody communicates to each other in the village, to which all agree. Cllr Stewart comes back to the points of concern.

Cllr Moon continues with the points whilst reiterating, once again, that she remains impartial.

5. Visibility of site – beech hedge has been planted and is as high as his fence. This will continue to grow and be in full leaf during spring which will go some way to shielding the site. May be able to see tops of vans when coming into the village

4. Seepage – Mr Temple filled in a ditch which has caused issues with surface water. Recipient has not mentioned this to Mr Temple. Putting in ‘clicks’ may not resolve the issue and could be dangerous. Mr Temple is required to put a holding tank and soak away for grey water. Not clear where the tanks are going to be. Separate water and electricity supply. Not sure if planning is required and Mr Temple has been advised to check. Recipient saw Mr Temple digging a soak away already. MOP asked about the barn which backs onto her property which is unsafe. Cllr Moon is unable to advise.

7. Site size – application is for 5 vans only and no tents but it was suggested that this could increase to include 10 tents. That would be another stage of application. Concerns are raised over why Mr Temple did not apply to The Caravan Club. Cllr Moon explained that he did but he was told that the proposed site, which was the other side of the property, was too close to Glebe Farm site. Cllr Stewart asked why he applied to Freedom and not other clubs, Cllr Moon was unable to answer. Recipient explained that Freedom Camping Club is a relatively new company and covers Australia and New Zealand and is gradually being introduced here.

6. Site usage – not clear if the site will be all year round and he will monitor. Cllr Stewart recites the regulations for usage stating that you are able to camp up to 60 days per year and no more than 48 consecutive days. Cllr Moon suggests this is for campers and not the site owner, not clear. Cllr Olivant agreed that is the case.

8. Dog mess – Mr Temple will put a dog bin on site and Cllr Moon suggested the PC could assist with an extra poo bin to be sited on the edge of the verge but the Council would need to agree to this in order to empty it. The concern is that it a private poo bin would not get emptied regularly or in the correct manner. Cllr Raynor queried if literature would be available to campers regarding poo bins, etc.

MOP raised concerns regarding Chinese lanterns. Cllr Moon stated that they are not necessarily associated to caravanners as other caravanners dislike them due to the danger. Sites generally don’t allow them on site or open fires. Cllr Stewart reads out some rules and regulations and the PC’s agree to keep a copy of them and we should all be vigilant. Noise is a concern and Freedom’s rules are no noise after 23:00. Cllr Moon suggests there may be room for negotiation to state that the site is so near residential properties that noise would need to cease at 22:00. Neighbouring MOP’s state that the site would overlook their property as there is a gap in their hedge. This would be a reasonable cause to object to Freedom.

Parish Council agree to write to Freedom on behalf of neighbours.

Further discussion around fencing, hedges and general lack of planning for driveway. This will be raised with ELDC as a separate issue. – 1:02:14.37

2.

Declaration of Interest – not discussed

3.

Meadow Lane road surface – discussion around what is considered Meadow Lane. The road floods when there is heavy rainfall. Cllr Willoughby states that the road is a bowl and will collect water but he would not be able to assist putting drainage in as it would require more specialist equipment. However, it would be resolved by levelling the road with tarmac. Cllr Willoughby queries whose responsibility it is to repair the road and if it is private. Cllr Moon states that only part of it is private and Cllr Stewart confirms the part of the road where the gravel begins is private and the road that is not private is the responsibility of the Council. Cllr Moon asks if it has been reported to the Council using the link she sent in an email a little while ago. Cllr Stewart states that a MOP had reported it previously however filling in the potholes will not resolve the issue of flooding. Cllr Willoughby advises that building the road up will help drain the surface water away and offered to do the work if the Council provides the material. Cllr Moon queries if he is allowed to do the work with it being Council property. Cllr Olivant states that he had previously filled the potholes in 2 years ago and received only one thank you and was not paid for the tarmac. Cllr Willoughby suggested speaking with Highways to establish if they will provide the materials. Cllr Moon remembers a discussion at a previous meeting to request this. Cllr Raynor advises it is a resource issue and people around the country are being trained to carry out the repairs.

Cllr Olivant states there would be an issue with insurance. Cllr Raynor asks if there is anything else we can do to get the repairs done apart from reporting it and Cllr Moon suggests the only option would be for it to be paid for privately. Could there be spare funds at the end of the financial year that need spending?

Cllr Moon asks if everyone is aware of the portal to report such issues and Cllr Willoughby offers to put it on the Benniworth Facebook page. Cllr Moon still has the photos of the road which MOP sent her so she will add them to her report if possible.

Cllr Raynor mentioned there was a visit from the tree officer the previous week. Another MOP had raised concerns that the trees on the little green near her house were getting too tall and blocking out the sun and needed lopping. The officer stated that the trees would not be lopped and the type that they are meant they would not grow much taller. The hedges were fine and Cllr Stewart’s opening to her footpath had been maintained by a MOP. Although the rest of the footpath was the responsibility of the land owner. Cllr Stewart informed that it was strimmed twice a year and suggested putting a sign up to warn dog owners of thorns on the ground – 01:11:45:59

4.

AOB – 2 Parishioners had approached Cllr Willoughby regarding a complaint about the hedge outside the Coppins on Main Road. Although it does get trimmed it is protruding out over the pathway making it difficult for people to pass with pushchairs/children/bikes or mobility scooters. Cllr Willoughby requested a letter to be sent to the property owners requesting to cut the hedge back. Cllr Raynor suggested speaking to him first.

Cllr Willoughby had also been approached regarding the street sign on Silver Street being tatty and delivery drivers missing the turning as it is not visible. The residents would like to know if it can be painted or a new sign purchased. The sign is only on one side and if it was more visible then it would prevent vans/lorries driving round the village. Cllr Stewart suggested painting the sign. – 1:14:25:63

Action No

Details

Owner

Due

Status

1.

PC to raise issue of surface water and drainage of road from High Street with ELDC

Benniworth PC

ASAP

Not started

2.

Plan from Mr Temple for site, holding tanks and soak-aways

Cllr Moon

ASAP

Not started

3.

Provide notes for issues raised with Mr Temple

Cllr Moon

ASAP

In progress

4.

Put link to reporting issues to the Council on Facebook

Cllr Willoughby

ASAP

Complete

5.

Report Meadow Lane road surface issues via Council portal

All

ASAP

In progress

6.

Send letter to the Coppins property owners regarding their hedge

Benniworth PC

ASAP

Not started

7.

Street sign for Silver Street to be checked if repairable

Benniworth PC

ASAP

Not started

Prepared by

Cllr Fay Moon

Signed

Cllr Keith Olivant - Chairman